Editors note: Funny how things work out. I just recently found out that I’ve not been pronouncing the name of the mill correctly. Being a Californian, I gave it the Spanish pronunciation. Come to find out, it was pronounced Pie no Grand. .Who’d have known if Steve Polkinghorn hadn’t told him. Wikipedia says that the original name was Pinogrande
Photo of our piece of the cable on display
(click on image for larger and clearer image)
The Museum has a piece of cable that was donated to us that is very interesting and historic.The cable we have was used by the Michigan-California Lumber Company to move lumber across the American River from the Pino Grande Mill on the north side to the Camino mill on the south side of the river.Briefly, it was installed in 1901 and was in operation until 1949. The distance of the cable over the river was 2,650 feet (other sources say 2814 feet) and it was about 1,200 feet from the the cable to the river below. A narrow gauge railroad took the rough cut lumber from the mill to a tower on the north side where the carriage was loaded, moved across the gorge and unloaded in a tower on the opposite side onto the narrow gauge railroad which took it to the mill in Camino. There is a very comprehensive history of it in a book published in 1984 by Steve Polkinghorn called “Pino Grande: Logging railroads of the Michigan-California Lumber Co.” The mill that operated for about 50 years at Pino Grande started out as the world’s first all electric sawmill at Folsom, CA. Prisoners from Folsom Prison had built a dam and put in an electrical generation plant that operated the saw mill as well as the trolley system in Sacramento. The mill operation at Folsom was never a success, with a number of different problems, most of which had to do with what they were trying to do with moving and storing logs on the river. In 1901 the mill was taken to the top of the mountain at Pino Grande and a steam plant furnished the power for the saws and other operating gear. The mill at Pino Grande worked well, with the big problem being getting the rough cut lumber down the mountain to be finished and shipped out. A system of railroads and the cable system over the river ended up successfully getting cars loaded with lumber down the mountain and over the river to where they could be moved by locomotives to the mill at Camino.Wikipedia has a short piece of explanation about this very interesting railroad at: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camino,_Placerville_and_Lake_Tahoe_Railroad
An extensive web site with many, many photos including a discovery of the South Landing remains, can be found at: http://www.trainweb.org/foothill/micalmp.html It is amazing to this editor how many great photographs there are of the Pino Grande operation.
The Pino Grande mill no longer exists. However, the Camino mill is now owned and operated by Sierra Pacific Industries (closed and torn down in about 2010), and there is still a road called Cable Rd in Camino that dead ends at the American River where the south tower of the cable was located. The Sierra Nevada Logging Museum is fortunate to have a section of one of those cables, shown in the photo above. There are also some remnants of the mill and dam at Folsom.Thanks to the Eldorado County Historical Museum and the Polkinghorn book for this information. Pictures to be added as we get them.
And we have them, thanks to Wayne Hofer of Martinez whose father worked at Pino Grande in the 1940’s. Thanks so very much for the never-before-been-seen-on-the-web photos, Wayne.
The Machine Shop at Pino Grande
Notice the line shaft operation of the machines.
Obviously not a view of what they were cutting.
Lumberjack’s Cabin at Pino Grande
The Sawmill
The lumber was cut up here on top, went down the cable to a train that took it to Camino for further processing.
Sugar Pine was the preferred lumber and many mills, not just Pino Grande, moved in order to find new stands.
Bucking a tree into manageable lengths
The logs were brought to the mill by rail, so there was an-up-on-top RR and a down-at-the-bottom RR
The Top of the Cable
How lumber, people, supplies got up and down from the river to the mountaintop.
Washing the sinkers that came out of the pond
One of the engines that supplied power to the mill
The carriage where the logs were moved back and forth through the saw.
The planing mill at Camino.
This is where the lumber was finished before being shipped out to market.
This gives us an idea of how big an operation Pino Grande was.
Mr. Nyberg was General Superintendent of the Michigan-California Lumber Co. Operation at Pino Grande and Camino
Note that the kids did not go to school during the winter. Your editor’s parents sent him to a school very near Camino that only operated in good weather. He figures that it was to get him out of their hair.
Map of 1910 Pino Grande, Sandborn Fire Map
Thanks to Lee Rogers for this map. Visit Lee’s Camino History site at
www.188522716477@groups.facebook.com
This page has the following sub pages.
Sierra Nevada Logging Museum 
I went accross the old cable in 1927 with my family on the way to camp 9, where my father was working. Some years later, perhaps 1934 I went accross the new cable (not as scary) on my way to camp 11. The tramways were some great engineering feats.
I recently drove down toward the South Fork north out of Pollock Pines, and at one spot, if you know where to look, you can see a scar where the North cable was located.
2-17-08
George Parker
Hi My name Dave, do you know how to get to pino grande,
where the mill use to be? I know its on a dirt road that ends.
I remember going up Spring st. from Placerville but from there
i dont remember Can you Help?
Hi Dave,
No, I don’t know the directions on how to get to Pino Grande. We’ve had both visits and e-mail from folks that have been up there, but I’ve never been. The Eldorado County Historical Society was helpful to me when I was putting the web section together and perhaps could at least put you in touch with someone who could give you good directions.
snlm
John
You can get to the old Pino Grande site from Wentworth Springs road or from Mosquito Road. There isn’t much there anymore. Use Google maps and do a search for Pino Grande and you’ll find the marker on the map near the intersection of Wentworth Springs and Mosquito road. If you decide to go up there, check out the old Bret Harte Hotel at Deer View or stop by the cable point on the north side while you at it. The cable house is long gone but the concrete tubes in the hill side are still there. I live in Pollock Pines and these are summer hiking/quad stops for us.
I live in Scotland and my great uncle Jimmy Blue rented out five cabins in 1927 to lumber workers. More information if available would be great.
George,
Amazing that you talk about riding the old cable at Pino Grande. My mother had several family members who worked at the mill and talks about riding that cable as a youth too. Her uncle, Bill Gibbs, was a forest ranger and worked closely with the folks at the mill. Her uncle, Willard Farris, was a saw filer and her other uncle, Clarence Saylor was the paymaster at Pino.
All my life I’ve heard stories of her family working various lumber mills. Her grandfather, Edwin Starr (Ned) Foster, was the millwright at the Caspar mill.
Small world.
Small world, indeed. About two weeks ago, the beginning of August, 2008, a woman came into the museum. She had a lot of family involved in the Pino Grande operation. She remembered the cable ride as something that became routine for her family regardless of how scary the first ride must have been.
Having previousely published a book (now on sale at the Placerville News, the museum at the fairgrounds and the Chamber of Commerce called Roads to Mosquito) I am now writing a book called Saw Dust & Gold Dust about the lumber mills in El Dorado County. I wish to obtain personel accounts and photographs and will give full credit to each contributor. Please contact Jim Gunn at jagunn90@hotmail.com.
I’ve always been fascinated by our local history. I have several old pictures of the Pino Grande mill. I was looking at maps, and notice there is a “Pino Grande” and an “Old Pino” listed. It appears that Pino Grande on the map is nowhere near the American River, so is Old Pino the actual location of the old saw mill?
Joannie,
Just read your letter about the cable and Pino Grande. I spent most of my summers in the camps where my father was timekeeper (one man office). I so often heard him phone Clarence Saylor in Pino. He had to forward all the food orders that had to come from Camino.
I started working summers there when I became 16. Steel gang, section crew, bridge crew, loader, limber, choker setter, brakeman, fireman, etc. It was good to make 60 cents per hour.
I have written a few stories about that life on:
http://www.trainweb.org/foothill/micalmain.html
if you are interested
George Parker
I run the website that George’s stories are featured on. Thanks George!! It it called Foothill Rails and covers the Michigan-California Lumber Co and 6 other local roads.
Please come by to visit and I would love to feature any stories about the railroad or company that anyone would like to contribute.
http://www.trainweb.org/foothill
norcaltrain@internet49.com
Trying to find out anything about the death of William Warring (aka Billy Warring) said to have been crushed to death between two train cars of the Pino Grande. Thanks.
Don’t have a specific date or time.
Try asking the Eldorado County Museum for information about Billy Warring. They have been very helpful to us in regard to Pino Grande.
snlm
My wife and I live in the area described around Cable road and found this article so interesting, I had to visit our neighbor Mr. Polkinghorn to thank him for his contributions to this area……..
My parents took us kids camping to pino grande in the 60s,
i went back in 80s, You could still see the foundation of the mill, i found the railroad ties (no track) also a bridge across slab creek . mostly over grown.
is there really a community there or just somewhere close
called pino grande?
My father and I have visited N.cable point several times.We got there by A T V and by foot.Its part of P.ville history I’m facinated!
My dad, Arthur Braden, worked in Camp 15 and Pino Grand as a fireman on the railroad. We lived summers in the Camp or at Pino and the winters in Camino, My dad had Braden Road built in the 40’s. We went to grammer school in Camino and high school in Placerville. I was so excited when I came across this website. Thanks
Lota Mae Braden – I remember you from grammar school in Camino. My Step-dad was Bill Snyder and he & your dad, Art, were very good friends.
Sonny Wells
Lota,
This has been an amazing part of our web site. There are so many of you out there who had a connection to Pino Grande. And it seems, you all have vivid and mostly happy memories of the camp. The museum itself gets a few visitors a month who have a Pino Grande connection and when I am working on the days they visit, they tell me stories about their experiences there. Most of those stories are homey in nature and interesting to me, but probably not to most of our web site visitors. I love hearing them, and I love hearing from web visitors like you. Thanks.
snlm
John
With regard to William Warring, he is probably not the man I replaced at Camp 15 in summer of 1941, and I never found out how bad were his injuries.
I was an “extra” man this summer. and I was working with Bill Berry, the forester, where a donkey had just been unloaded at a new landing. The brakeman trying to couple the engine to the steel covered car was crushed between the car and engine. I then became a brakeman.
George,
Thanks for the reply; I haven’t read the string of comments on this site for awhile though still pursue the family genealogy that includes Billy
Waring. See Roy’s comment below. Based on the date in 1922 I don’t think he is the man you replaced at Camp 15.
Regards,
Bill Schreiber
My father used to hunt up in the area of Pino Grande. He took us camping there one year in the 60’s. He knew all the history of the lumber mill. My brothers were running around the area while we were camping. The area was pretty wooded where we were camping, but in a clearing they found half buried in the ground a “wooden” home plate. We had it in our garage for years. Then on an episode of California’s Gold, Huell Howser visited the Mill and the person giving him the tour told him that the workers of the mill had formed a baseball team. I was really excited. I’m sure the wooden home plate was from the games that they played there. Unfortunately, I have looked in my father’s garage but could not find it. I wanted to take the home plate and donate it to the museum up there. My father passed away a few years ago, so I did not get the opportunity to ask him if it still existed. Since it was “wooden”, it may have just deteriorated by now. I do plan on visiting the mill and museum next summer.
Thanks for the post and the story about the home plate, Vickie. We’ll be very glad to see you at the museum when you come over.
snlm
John
My father and grandfather (Harry Nick Collias and Nick Harry Collias) worked for the Michigan-Cal Lumber Company in Pino Grande. In fact, on the 1940 Census, their address is listed as Camp 14. I am tracing my family tree and it is so interesting to see these pictures and hear these stories.
Just a compliment for John Hofstetter on the excellent work he has done for SNLM.
It has been a ling time since Bill Schreiber asked about Billy Waring. William R. Waring was a Victim of “Link & Pin” Couplers.thirty year old billy was crushed while making up a lumber train at the South Cable. This was according to the 5 August 1922 Mt. Democrat
Roy,
Thanks so much for your reply about Billy Waring. I haven’t read the Pino Grande ‘string’ of comments for awhile, though I am still hard at my family genealogy, including this particular branch of the family. I will look up the 5 Aug 22 mention of Bill’s death in the Mt Democrat.
Regards,
Bill Schreiber
It is so good to see that some people care about that history in that small corner of the world. My mother grew up in Pino (she always pronounced it PINE-o). She was the daughter (and I am the grand son) of Ruth and Jack Corker. Grandpa played a small part in the Mich-Cal operations and I have found memories of summers in Camino and camping on the Big Silver. Most of my uncles (mom was one of 5 daughters), worked at the mill, but one, Bob Barrett, owned the local food store in Camino. If there is someone with the last name of Ward or Carsten or Barrett around Placerville, they are most likely kin.
I visited Pino in 1965 and stood on the concrete anchors on both ends of the cable. In ’95 I took my sisters (from Louisville, KY) and their kids there to see what remains and what mom’s life might have been like. I turned 70 this year, I gotta get my kids and grand kids out there. They are all east coast born and raised (I live in Williamsburg), and they need a better appreciation of where we all started.
Mom and I and my two sisters all moved to Ky in the mid-50’s. I retired from the CIA in 1993 and work most everyday in my shop as a licensed gunsmith.
If your ever out this way…
dear sir, my name is David Brunk, the family and I have been to pino camping in 60s, 70s 80s i went back in 90s but dont remmember how to get there I know you can go up mosquito rd.
but thats it can you please help Dave
Hi- I went to High School with a Corker “Corkey” Rines – any relation? We both lived in Camino at the time. -early 50’s
You bet! Corkey was my oldest brother, living with my uncle Bill Ward up above Camino on Mt. Daniher. The middle brother and I were living with my mother in the bay area. Corkey finished highschool in Sparks, NV., joined the Navy and retired off the flight deck of the Ike (CVA 69), as a Master Chief Radioman. We lost him about 20 years ago, he would have been 76 this year. He had 5 sons, so Rhines is no longer a rare name!
Good to hear from you, keep in touch.
Hey John not sure if this will find you. My name is Glen Carsten. My dad is Gary Carsten. We were just talking about the area and your name came up here. If you get this please send me an email. My dad would love to chat. Glen@americanmechanical.net
Thanks
I’m here at this address, Glen. I’d be happy to communicate with your Dad’ John
Sent from my iPhone
>
Dave – The best I can tell you is to go to Google Earth and try to find it there. I only found it in the (0’s because a cousin in the area knew the way. If you do get there I would love a few pics. When I was there in the 60’s the mill pond was still in evidence, but not much else.
Regards,
JR
John,
our family has a cabin near by. i will go out there and take a bunch of pictures. im not sure if i can post them on this page or not?
Hi, In the 60s you could see where the cabins where, My, aunt
found a 20 dollar gold piece, you could see the foundation of the
mill, across slab creek that feeds the pond part way up the hill side I found where the upper train tracks use to be, no steel just rail road ties, this went on for miles. Just some info Dave
mill
I would go there with my friend David Bean and target practice in 1975 there was only one cable left going across the canyon he told me he crossed the canyon on that one cable
Tyler Harrison,
me and my family own property about 2 miles from Pino Grande Mill site. I go there often. we had many rail lines running through our property.
Hi, My name is David brunk, We have been to pino grande
in50, 60, 70 and i tried in 90 but i just dont remember how to get there, things change I guess. Do you know? or know someone
who might? Thanks Dave
Hey david,
my name is tyler (post above) i would be more than happy to give you directions or even take you there. do you live near placerville? you can e-mail me at tharrison@demtech.com. i was just out there a few weeks ago.
Hi: my name is Kenneth Martin Bruce. My grandfather was Dr. Wallace P. Martin. He was the doctor for Pino Grande in the 30’s. His wife was his nurse. My mother Marcella Martin was born there. Haven’t been, but would like to go sometime.
This is Kenneth Martin Bruce. I mistakenly wrote that my grandfather was the doctor in Pino Grande in the 30’s. Not, it was the 20’s
Kemmeth,
i would like to take you out there sometime. we have a cabin on 40 acres somewhat near by. we go out there all the time. do you live in the area?
Tyler
My name is Richard Fritzler I have lived in Pollock for 20 years and Love slab creek, I have jet skied, boated, water skied and been scuba diving there many many times. FB me if you want a tour. If you go to google maps and type in “slab creek reservoir”, go to satellite view, and then zoom out or in until you see the title “slab creek reservoir”. If you look above and to the left of the “letter S” in the word Slab, you will see a bare dirt spot, zoom in on it and you will see what seems to be the cable anchors. Exactly where the letter “R” is in Reservoir is where the crunched remains of the cable car are, lots of steel, pulley wheels and 5 or 6 giant cables running into the lake. From your boat or kayak, when the lake is full the wreckage is 1′ to 10′ from the waters edge but you must get very close as its overgrown with plants. Follow that shoreline west a quarter mile and you’ll see the old wagon trail road with many Chinese built rock walls along the shoreline. Richard 530 305 2400
Hey Richard,
this is Tyler Harrison, Ive been in the area many years now (30+) and my family has been here since 1882. or a few years earlier… im interested in going scuba diving sometime. i live in placerville. .
hope to talk to you soon.
Tyler
In 2009, Sierra Pacific shut down the Camino Mill promising to only mothball it… These pictures in the facebook link were taken last week. We had asked the Board of Supervisors to protect Camino, but their inaction has left it open for Sierra Pacific to completetly scrap the Mill and all it’s buildings. It’s a sad day for all of us connected to this history. We are still trying to put pressure on the Board to save the little that is left. Thank you for the pictures. We put the Planing Mill picture on Hangtown Facebook page. It’s the building they are currently tearing down.
Sue Taylor
Hi Sue, I wish I had known about that meeting. We’re sad to see the mill being taken apart, and worried about what they plan to do with the property. We’d love to see something great happen in this little town – preserving it and at the same time encouraging unique new businesses to breathe some life back into it. We’ve started a new website for this purpose, where we highlight local artists, authors, & musicians, post a little town history and are busy adding a classified section. It’s easy to remember because it’s our town,plus the zip code – http://www.Camino95709.com – we welcome suggestions and comments and after reading your post, will probably start adding updates on the mill.
Nan
a blast from the past my mom and dad used to buy our food from Barrette’s store and so did a lot of other family members. That was in the late 50’s
How is it that I have a book “Last of the Three Foot Loggers,” written by Steve Polkinghorn? From what I find online, someone named Kreig wrote it. I don’t think so. I bought it a lonyg time ago and still have it. I rode an off-road bike back in 1972 and have been to the North and South footings of the cable. Last time I was near the North end the right-of-way was too overgrown with new pines that I couldn’t get to the site. Also rode across a creek directly to the site of Pino Grande mill. I now live in NC and wish I’d had the opportunity to meet Steve.
Gary, I don’t understand your post. Steve (or R.S.) Polkinghorn wrote the Pino Grande book, but did not write the “Last of the Three Food Loggers.” The last of the three foot loggers was the Westside RR over in Tuolumne County.
snlm
The Mill, and Power House are all Gone….The Big Lumber Storage Shed was Demolished ….There’s a You Tube Video of it Going down at One Time…..All the Lumber is Being sold ….Real Lumber….The Concrete Power House for the Planing Mill and Box Factory and a couple of Storage sheds and the Office is about all that’s Left…..On Face Book….Check out the Camino History Page…There are a LOT…..Of Good OLD Photo’s and New Ones…
my family worked at one of the mills in reno I just recently acquired some photos that show steam donkey and horse drawn lifts one photo cleary states Reno Lumber mill however I am having a hard time locating anything. the box of tools I have state Camp Taylor Via Reno Nevada on the back any information?
Lee Rodgers, You once wrote me that you had a photo of Michigan – Cal’s speeder, but I didn’t get it. Can you send it again?
George Parker
geowparker@astound.net
I just Saw Your Message georgeparker320…..and Sent you the Picture of the Speeders in front of the Engine House and Recent Released Pictures of the Demise of the Mill at Pino, and a Picture someone Found and posted on the Internet from 1955 of Pino….
demise of the mill at pino? it’s been gone for nearly 60+ tears, although the King fire burned that area this last september..as well as it burned all of our property and cabins in the area:-( anyone want to donate some trees for replanting?
Tyler Harrison
I appreciate you bro and what you do. I’m not surprised to find your posts here. (:
Thanks man, it was fun this weekend.
thanks,
Tyler
I found this site doing research on Pinogrande, because my mom and her family lived there. I see my mom, her brother and her sister in the schoolhouse photo!! I showed mom these photos and she couldn’t believe that someone had these. I am so hoping to print these up for our family. Unbelievable. Can I please have copies of the camp and the school emailed to me? erine5@hotmail.com
Erin,
I worked in the camps for many summers. Try my website for some of the stories: georgewashingtonparker.com
George
Thank you George! I sure will…
Hi George,
My mom wants to know if you are related to Sheldon Parker and Francis?
I don’t recognize the names, but who knows? I recently got involved with a program that sent my genes (from a mouth swatch) to compare with thousands of other participants. I am related to many 3rd cousins it reports.
I had five sisters: Dorothy, Louise, Jean, Margery, Rosemary, but no brothers.
At 96 I walk a little slower, and for the 4th year I expect to be the Oldest Marine at the cutting of the cake at the Marine Corp birthday ball at the Marines’ Memorial Club in S. F. in November
George
Editor’s note: I wanted to get this message out to those interested, but couldn’t think of a really good way to do that. So here it is.
From: Jim Gunn
Subject: Pino Grande
Message Body:
I will be updating my book “Roads to Mosquito” this winter. I lived at Mosquito from 1948 to 1953. The family often visited Pino and Deer View Lodge. Anyone wishing to add photos or experience’s at Pino or Mosquito email me at jagunn90@hotmail.com.
(916) 704-6847 Sacramento
The cable car that fell when the tower burned is still visible on the south bank of slab creek dam. It’s a shame someone can’t fund recovering the pieces and putting them on display.
My neighbor said she rode across the cable with her father when she was a child and it was quite a scary ride with the center of the car being open. As one of the pioneering families of Camino, many off the Larsen family know a lot of the history of the mill.
We can see the North Side foundation from our property on the South side of the river so I have heard stories about cable point all my life…I recently tried to find the foundation on the South side but I think they have removed most if it to extend the road.
Another part of history that is hard to find information on is the Chute Camp dam where logs were skidded down a cut in the side of the mountain to the dam and sent down a wooden flume to I think Chilly Bar. I remember going to see the dam and flume as a kid…my dad said they used to walk the cat walk above the running water…no liability attorneys at that time!
The very narrow dirt road that is now used for a boat launch at the West end of Slab Creek dam was the access road to dam that is now 100 ft under water.
The old miners and loggers did some amazing things back in those times.
Thank you for the very interesting note on that area of Slab Creek Reservoir – Before the SMUD Slab Creek dam was built in the late 50’s or early 60’s, it was Chute Camp dam- I have 1942-43 memories of my brother & I living in the PG&E house on the north side of Chute Camp reservoir. My Uncle at that time was the flume tender for the powerhouse near Rock Creek. The road off North Canyon road going to the “landing” where the boat for crossing the water impounded by the Chute Camp dam was tied up. It was a very steep dangerous road. Most of the time the motor on the boat would not start and my Uncle Albert Cooper or my Aunt Lil had to row the boat across to the house after going into town for groceries- I was 4 years old at that time. I have many more memories of living with them- I lived there for 3 months. My brother lived with our aunt & uncle for a year. I also remember Uncle Al telling us about the quarried out log chute near Slab Creek We spent Christmas 1942 in that PG&E house.
Already workin on it…
To Get to Pino Grande Now… is a 3 Mile Hike from Locked Gates on Mosquito Rd.. Take Mosquito Rd, from Placerville, when you get out to Mosquito, you can stay at Finnon Resivor, the Camp Ground and Store have been Redone.. I had the Whole Campground to myself Sept. 2013… Only Old Topo maps show Pino’s Location… it’s been scrubbed off of Forest Service and google maps… What used to Be Sand Mountain Rd has been renamed Mosquito Rd. and 1/4 mile east of the intersection is the Locked Forest Service Gate… the Original Mosquito Rd was Paved and a County Rd, so after 3 Miles, Look for the Large Open area on the Right, The Big Clear area was the Parking lot for the Company Store-Office, Machine Shops, Ect. Walk Down the Hill to the Clearing for the Engine Houses, and walk Left to the Brow log Stack still standing. The Mill was Built UP ABOVE and Across the Creek….
Hey Lee, How ya been?
Hi to Anyone interested in Pino Grande, California,
My grandmother, Jessica Doyle, taught school in Pino Grande during the late 1930’s until her death in late 1937.
Email please if so inclined,
benitaorlando@att.net
HI Benita, do you have a photo of your grandmother from that time? I asked my mom, but she is 90 and can’t recall. My mom would’ve been around 8 years-old. You can email me at ev@sparrow.world if you’d like.
I sure enjoyed the memories and information that was shared here, I read every one of them.. I need information on an old ranch house on Cable road. I lived in it for a brief time while waiting for another property to close escrow in Placerville. This property had a pond, apple Orchard and the little railroad track than ran on part of the property up by the pond. The house was large with a fireplace that was pulling away from the house. It was in an open area. This was in 1972. I have a picture in my mind and have looked at all the apple business’s and the area doesn’t seem to be right. I do remember the school bus let the elementary kids off the bus at an Y section of road and my kids had to walk over a mile, maybe more to this house. And it had like a cover over the track where the little engine sat. A caretakers mobile was also on the property. It was owned at that time by a professor from the Bay area.. Anyone know this property?
I remember a property like that in Camino. I rode the bus along Carson Road and other winding roads in Camino, when I went to my friend’s home after school. We drove through Apple Hill area, back when it was only a local event.
Are you asking for the address, what happened to it, or ?
Could you ask the owner what happened to it, the one who you rented from?
The landscape, population growth, and building in that area makes it difficult to find anything we remember from the 70s!
I went to the old Mill on Smith Flat and discovered it demolished. That area is unrecognizable to me. I was searching for a friend’s childhood home near it. Loved the place, it was a two story farm house. coach house, paddocks, garden and huge tree with a tree house. I couldn’t even find the street. 😦
All, my great grandfather, Giuseppe/Joe Gasparini homesteaded near Pino Grande starting about 1889. He is more familiarly known as “Butcher Knife Joe” in the area. His daughters [Josie Childers, Mary Brunelli(my grandmother), and Victoria Stefani] lived their childhoods on and off between Pino Grande and Joe’s 2nd property/ranch on Shute Camp road in Smith Flat. (I think that’s the right road name 🙂 ) I am writing some material to be included in a future book that will be put on display at an “Emigrants” museum in Joe’s birth village in the Valle Maggia in Switzerland. I have several questions so that my event sequence is correct. Gasparini family memoirs mention that Joe’s daughters would have had to have gone to school in Old Pino (vs. Pino Grande) about 1905-1909 but I know there was a school in Pino Grande–was it established later (and hence why they would have gone to school in Old Pino?) The family eventually moved to the ranch in Smith Flat so the children could attend Blairs District school. But that was because Joe didn’t want them walking through the bear-infested forest to school in Old Pino… I’m trying to understand why school in Old Pino vs. Pino Grande. I am thinking maybe the school in PinoGrande didn’t exist at that time but that is speculation. thank you in advance.
Our family has property near butcher knife Joe’s. Ive always wondered how that area got its name? Was he a butcher?
I would like to know more about your families homestead.
Tyler Blair Harrison
Hi Tyler, so sorry for the delay in responding. Butcher Knife Joe (Joe Gasparini) was an early immigrant in the area. sometime about 1888, the story goes that he was out hiking on Silver Creek ridge, saw a bear cub, picked it up. The mother bear was nearby and attacked him. He barely survived but is said to have killed the attacking animal using a “Pocket Knife” with a 4″ blade. I suspect it was more like a switch-blade . He happened to kill the bear but was left badly injured lying in the trail and soon discovered by his partner (a man named “Staples”). After that, old timers in the county called him “Butcher Knife Joe, the bravest man you’d want to know!” He carried scars on his chest the rest of his life. Some think the animal was a mountain lion, but people from the era swear it was a Grizzly bear. Unless I can find documentation from the era, I don’t think we’ll ever know for sure.
I remember my Grand Mother talking about taking the horse and buggy to school. But that was rare they used to walk it. I met my Great Grandother when I was young and she could not speak any English but could swear pretty good in English. She would say to skinny and stuff apples and cookies in my pockets. She was real old bent over and had long white hair. I had know idea the history as I was so young. I do remember her saying Manga Mange to skinny. My mother is Alma Childers Josephine Gasprini’s daughter.
Hello Marijeanne Rende
This is Roy from Placerville, I have been interested in local lumber mills & Wood industry employees since i saw that logging chute from Slab Creek in the mid Seventies.
Us teenagers thought that butcher knife Joe was was so cool. Even had a sheath made for one of my butcher knives once. So that when i was exploring around Pino Grande I could be cool too, like you know who.
Forty or so years later I met a nice lady named Pearl putting flowers on Joe’s Grave. She shed some light on what Joe may have lived with. Hopefully you know who Pearl is. Hopefully She is doing well, where ever she is. As you can guess I would love to hear your family version of, How Joe got his name.
Your question on Old Pino vs. Pino Grande.
Pino Grande was started in the early 1890’s. The original Company possibly just needed a name for its Post Office. The American River Land and Lumber Company needed a post office at it’s Headquarters in the Woods. Usually the name of the company office in the woods was just called “Headquarters”. The Post office was actually called Pino Grande, California
This first company had different needs than its successor. Initially Pino Grande was a logging Camp, a place to water up the locomotive(s). Possibly to fuel up the trains. (They referred to it as “wooding up”) Most likely a place to feed and house the workers.
Later the next organization, The El Dorado Lumber Company moved up Slab Creek a few miles and built an entire saw mill complex. This new mill was called Pino Grande. The name “Headquarters” mostly disappeared
The former and much smaller group of buildings. Were renamed “Old Pino”. This location was kept up and somewhat usable for the trains that went past daily. (Well almost Daily)
Joe’s land was closer to Old Pino than to Pino Grande. The school at the Pino Grande saw mill complex was started about 1904. this school ran until about 1950 when the sawmill shut down. Whether or not there ever was a school at Old Pino, Before 1904, Would seam possible but unlikely. I have never heard of any families living at “Old Pino”. Mill workers often did have their families at (the Second) Pino Grande.
Lastly … Joe’s House on the Camino side, was not to far away from Chute Camp. the land around Chute camp was in the Blairs (School) District. I had a friend who pointed to a neighbors house and said that was once Butcher Knife Joes House. This would have been in the late seventies. Evidently this neighboring house had a big root cellar and possibly a Wine Cellar. Smith Flat was a separate community about six or seven Miles away.
Currently… there is a bunch of Apple ranches in the area and we call it Apple Hill. I am sure that you know all about it.
I could give you a list of books that are available at the local Library or Museum that might help explain this. However you may need to read between the lines.
Hope that i have not confused you Roy Van Sant.
Hello Roy! Thank you for your information. Pearl Keeler was Josie Gasparini Childers stepdaughter. Pearl passed away a few years ago.
Josie was my great aunt and the daughter of Joe Gasparini. She and her sister (My grandmother Mary Gasparini Brunelli) are buried at Union Cemetary with their spouses… as are their parents Joe and Amelia Gasparini (Butcher Knife Joe). My mother, Palmina Brunelli Rende grew up in Diamond Springs at Caldor. She graduated from El Dorado County High School in 1944 and in fact her English teacher one year was Robert Ramsey who wrote the work about growing up in Pino Grande.
I have my great aunt Josie’s memoirs. She writes about the incident with her father, around 1888 (he was about 35 years old) , he was out hiking on Silver Creek Ridge (I suspect he was checking a trapline or maybe gold panning??) . A bear cub appeared out of the brush and looked alone…so he picked it up. Josie writes “big mistake!” , the mother bear also came out of the brush, attacked Joe (who was alone) and nearly killed him. He managed to get his “pocket knife with a 4” blade (I suspect it was more like a ‘switch blade’) out of his pocket and managed to strike the right spot on the bear, killing it. Joe was found bleeding and half dead on the trail by his partner, a man named “Staples”. When word got out about how he had killed the bear, old timers gave him the name “Butcher Knife Joe…the bravest man you’d want to know!” Family still debates the animal that attacked. His daughters always swore it was a Grizzly bear, but it could have been a black bear, or even a mountain lion. Regardless, when he died in 1937, his grandchildren found deep scars on his chest from the attack. The creek that runs through his old homestead property is currently mis-naned and I’m trying to get the name corrected with the Forest service. It should be “Gasparini Creek”.
Yes, the Gasparini’s lived on Chute Camp road in Smith Flat and Joe’s daughter did indeed attend Blairs District School. Joe, by trade, was a stone mason. So, yes, he built rock structures like a wine celler, an apple shed, stone foundation on the old house (but I understand subsequenht owners at the property let the house burn down).
I am currently writing a manuscript for inclusion in a book that will be published and donated to an immigrant’s museum in the valley where he was born in Switzerland. My manuscript focuses on the immigrant experience from Joe and his wife’s perspective. I am in really big need of a photo of THE CAGE which I can include and for which someone will give me permission to use it. The family used THE CAGE cable transport to go to/from the old homestead near Pino Grande.
Hi Marijeanne I am Alma Pomeroy’s son and i am with my mother who is 98 and lives in Placerville. I am also interested in the family history. When I was young I met aunt Mary many times. I went on a skeeter to get a Christmas tree I had to of been 8 or 9. I live in Oregon and down in Placerville visiting my mother who was Josephine and grew up in Placerville. Great Grandad moved closer to town for the girls to go to school. There used to be a monument to Butcher Knife Joe the forest service put up but somebody pried it off and I have contacted the Forest Service to get a new one put back. I visited the site when it was still there.
Pearl was my aunt and helped raise me.
The stories about how he got his name vary. But my grandmother Josephine who was his daughter says it happened when he went to the rock cellar to cut off some meat for dinner. And in side was a Mountain Lion chewing on the hanging deer. And all he had was the Butcher Knife that he was going to cutoff meat with. But stories change with time but I believe my grandmother.
I have a lot of information to help pass on to future generations as even I am getting old.
Roy Van Sant…. Good to See, You’re Still on the Right side of the Dirt…Did you ever get Your Book Done??? Would Love to get a Copy…
When the American River Land and Lumber Co started Logging the George Town Divide, Everything had to come up from Sacramento all the way up through Folsom, Cool, Greenwood, George Town, Quintette, moving everything by Oxen and Horse Teams, Just to get North of the American River, to get to those Great Stands of Sugar Pine and Pondarosa Pine. Until the 1st Porter Steam Engine was Moved out to Camp 4 ( Old Pino ), everything was still Moved by Animals…With the Steep, Deep Canyons, the Only one with running water, was Water Canyon, on that Finger of a Ridge, Leading to the American River, where they Hoped to Float Logs down to Folsom and the 1st Electric Sawmill….
The George Town Divide is One Hot Dry Country in the summer, and Water is usually Only Found in the bottom of those Deep, Dark Canyons…Finding Info on the First 3 Camps…. Now There is a Challenge …
Amazing Things the Old Timer’s Did… with Wood, and a Little Iron…. Lee Rogers
My Great Grandfather worked at the mill and was night watchmen to keep an eye on it when very few people were onsite. His name was Josepi Gaspirini and he had emigrated for Switzerland. And roads and creeks are named after him. They called him Butcher Knife Joe. And Gasparrini creek was named after him.
Hi Richard! Been wanting to reach out..I need to stop by your Mom’s house to visit…I have many updates for her on my Swiss research as well as my research from El Dorado County. I am relying on Josie’s memoirs that your aunt Irene and your Mom documented in the 1990’s….cousin Kasi sent me a copy a few years ago and it is amazing how accurate was Josie’s memory in her later years. I have been able to correlate many of her stories with documented facts in Switzerland too.
In regard to the “bear” vs “lion” debate, lol, I’m going with “bear” based on Josie’s memoirs which were dictated by her to her daughters. But you are right, stories change over the years and I’m still in searh of any 1880’s-ish newspaper articles that might have mentioned the attack—per Josie it was known across the County..seems strange someone wouldn’t have written about it at the time?? I believe the attack happened about 1886-1888…just before Joe made his homestead claim. Josie said he was about 35 years old. There *were* later “incidents” with mountain lions–one reported in 1896 by Joe himself . Another when Josie was a small child at the homested and a mountain lion absconded with a goat into the brush….followed closely by Joe, his gun, and dog! I will get your contact information from your Mom…or she can give you mine, no worries.
Call me I hate doing this but we need to talk.
503-741-0427